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Obama, Warren, And Where Fierce Urgency Meets False Equivalence

by: Michael Conrad

Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 21:13:57 PM EST


(on evangelicals, Rick Warren, and the meaning of that choice... - promoted by poligirl)

There has already been a lot of discussion regarding President - Elect Obama's choice of Rick Warren to give the invocation at the inauguration.  But I feel like I have a responsibility to add my voice to the chorus.  I'll explain why below.  
Michael Conrad :: Obama, Warren, And Where Fierce Urgency Meets False Equivalence
I understand that President - Elect Obama is under a tremendous amount of pressure, and he's doing some very good things. Rep. Hilda Solis is an excellent choice for Labor Secretary.  While some of his other picks are cause for concern, the real test will be whether or not he pushes for the agenda that helped him win both the nomination and the general election.

The Rick Warren situation is a different matter.  We often heard Obama say that John McCain isn't a bad guy, but he "just doesn't get it."  When it comes to Rick Warren, the same could be said about Obama.  The claims that giving Warren this platform can't affect attitudes or let the Evangelical right (which is in deep trouble, as younger Evangelicals are caring more about what Jesus would do than what Jerry Falwell would say) off the mat don't wash with me.

The Myth of the Pragmatic Pushover

If you spend enough time on progressive blogs, you're likely to run across the acronym IOKIYAR, which stands for "It's okay if you're a Republican."  A group of small, but vocal apologists for anything the President - Elect does have introduced us to what could easily be called IOKIYAO. It's okay if you are Obama.  

Their defense of the Warren decision is comprised of two tactics.  They either talk about "pragmatism," or play the guilt trip card.  I don't think this group or its sentiments are as widespread as it seems, but they are able to pull the discussion in a strange and counterproductive direction.  The Warren decision is perhaps the best example of this.  

Note:  For the sake of this post, I'll refer to this group as UDs (Unconditional Defenders).

The UDs' "pragmatism" exists mostly in their own minds.  It's not a secret how public opinion on this issue is driven.  The more the smears and hysteria are confronted, the more likely it is that people will allow themselves to get to know a gay person or imagine what it would be like to walk in their shoes.  If someone gets to know a gay person, it becomes much more likely that they will change their views.  

The UD' brand of "pragmatism" is selective.  In late 2002, I doubt you could have found many Democratic strategists who would have said that opposing the war in Iraq was a pragmatic thing for Democrats with national ambitions to do.  Yet Obama opposed it, a stance that played a major role in his winning the Democratic nomination.  President Obama himself has blasted Democrats who thought they needed to talk and vote like Republicans to win the national security debate.

On some level, the behavior of the UDs is understandable.  These are exceptionally hard times, and there is nothing wrong with feeling excited and hopeful about what an Obama presidency could mean.  We all want him him to succeed, but views that border on hero worship aren't going to help this happen.

Republicans use the bully pulpit, while Democrats run from it, and that has to change.  Elected Democrats need to be reminded how much their actions and words can alter the political terrain.  

This whole episode reminded me of something then - Senator Obama wrote in September of 2005, after the confirmation of John Roberts as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

I am not drawing a facile equivalence here between progressive advocacy groups and right-wing advocacy groups. The consequences of their ideas are vastly different. Fighting on behalf of the poor and the vulnerable is not the same as fighting for homophobia and Halliburton.

Very well said.  It's too bad that Obama then felt the need to build a straw man to hack away at.  The warnings about demanding fealty to the "one, true progressive vision for the country," the talk about a "straight - jacket," and a "conversation only with the converted" is done in the name of moving the country forward.  It seems to me that politicians going after the ultimate low - hanging fruit (partisanship), and Democratic leaders misrepresenting what their base is asking of them hasn't helped move the country forward at all.  And for the record, there is nothing "new" about the politics of intellectual dishonesty.  

I bring this up because this flawed understanding of progressive priorities is still present in the rationale for some of Obama's decisions.  It's also still a part of his rhetoric.  

Then - Senator Obama brought up a certain late, great Senator from Minnesota in his post.

Similarly, one of Paul Wellstone's greatest strengths was his ability to deliver a scathing rebuke of the Republicans without ever losing his sense of humor and affability.

Obama has yet to deliver a "scathing rebuke,"or for that matter any rebuke, of Warren's most offensive comments. He is also forgetting one of Wellstone's best, and most famous quotes.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them." - Paul Wellstone

How do we best fight for LGBT rights?  Tactically, I understand those who stop short of supporting marriage equality in certain parts of the country.  I strongly disagree on the substance, but if they dropped the right - wing talking points while other Democrats (especially Senators representing coastal states) started moving to support marriage equality, there would be a case to be made that the strides justified the tactic.  Whatever is done, we need more of the "fierce urgency of now" Obama has spoken eloquently about, and much less false equivalence.   Rationalizing Warren giving the invocation by pointing out that civil rights icon Rev. Joseph Lowry will give the benediction is a good illustration of false equivalence in action.

Part of the netroots is lamenting that they didn't do enough to make Obama earn their support during the primary.  While there was a considerable amount of projecting that went on, that doesn't mean that President Elect Obama shouldn't be held accountable.  In fact, he specifically and repeatedly asked his supporters to do just that.  While the conventional wisdom - driven parts of his message were always there, I would recommend re - watching some of his performances at debates, forums, and town halls.  There was a bolder component to his message that has been largely forgotten.  He obviously won the nomination in large part because of what he said,  so we shouldn't hesitate to remind him of his own words.

Wholesale acceptance of largely baseless yet resilient conventional wisdom is already a big enough obstacle in the way of those who want to build a bigger and better Democratic Party as it is.  Challenging the false equivalence (from pundits and politicians alike) of progressive and conservative values and advocacy is a daunting, yet worthwhile task.  

Social Conservatism and the Real Rick Warren

The social conservatives that run the GOP today have a long record of taking appalling positions.  Many of them were pro - slavery, anti-miscegenation, anti - women's suffrage, anti - union, and anti - civil rights.  Now they're anti - science, anti - choice, and anti - equality.  My fellow Millenials should think twice before trivializing the so - called "culture wars" just because we weren't around to witness their peak.  Important achievements don't come without struggle.  

Despite his carefully crafted image, Rick Warren is far from "moderate."  He called opposition to reproductive rights and embryonic stem cell research "non - negotiable" issues.  He's also called for the assassination of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.  I'm under no illusions about Ahmadinejad, but I can't imagine how this kind of talk coming from "America's pastor" would help the situation.  The irony here is that, at least on one issue, there isn't much daylight between Mahmoud "There are no gays in Iran" Ahmadinejad and Rick "You must delay and pray the gay away" Warren.

There is more to this controversy than Warren's support for Prop 8 in California, though that is bad enough.  Warren's comparisons of gay relationships to incest and pedophilia, as well as his "gay people don't want to be monogamous" line during his interview with Ann Courey, cross the line.  I'm all for working with Evangelicals on issues ranging from poverty to AIDS to the environment.  It makes a lot of sense, and Evangelicals aren't the monolithic block they're often considered to be.  But giving Warren this platform is not the only way to do that.  

There are also questions about what Warren really thinks about the issues that give him his "moderate" credibility.  He's called those who believe in a social gospel "closet Marxists," and there have been valid questions raised about what some of his allies in Africa are up to.  The fight against AIDS is far too important to empower visceral opponents of common sense measures like comprehensive sex education and condoms.

How different are Falwell and Warren really?  Give Falwell red hair, a goatee, and a smile... and put him in a Hawaiian shirt, and what is the substantive difference?  Warren himself admitted that there is little real difference between himself and virulent right - winger James Dobson.  

The Warren choice also sends the signal that if you launder your hate through your faith, and come across as generally pleasant, you can get away with a lot.  Rick Warren says some terrible, bigoted things... but he makes up for it by... being a jovial guy?  Warren's demeanor isn't a reason to tarnish an incredible achievement in one civil rights movement by putting salt in the recent wound of another.  

Some have pointed out that Obama listed LGBT rights under "Civil Rights" on his website, and that somehow mitigates the damage here, but it actually reinforces what I'm trying to convey.  Civil rights are not just another issue.

Obama's gesture to the far - right requires that he step on young people (who overwhelmingly support equality), progressives, women, and the LGBT community.   Maybe Warren could say something about organized labor being a tool of the devil so President - Elect Obama could deeply offend his entire base of support.

I've seen staunch defenders of Obama's choice remind us that listening to people with "different opinions" is a departure from the Bush years.  If we set the bar that low, anybody can clear it.  Listening is one thing.  I think it's safe to say we're all for that.  I talk to conservative Evangelicals about politics on a regular basis.  But whitewashing what is said in a public forum when it is just plain wrong is something else altogether.

This is an empty form of "civility."  What is civil about denying people their civil rights?  How is someone who puts our gay friends on the same level as pedophiles "disagreeing without being disagreeable"?  

Another canard that has been trotted out is the claim that this choice will start a discussion. Where is this elusive discussion?  The only one I've heard is the one that revolves around the idea that anyone who has a problem with Warren giving the invocation is part of the "angry / hard / far left."  

And this advances equality how?

If this is really about starting a discussion, why hasn't Warren accepted the Courage Campaign's invitation to debate marriage equality with Reverend Eric Lee?  Is President - Elect Obama going to promote a forum where LGBT rights activists can engage with the religious right?  Obama hasn't yet addressed Warren's most odious statements.  He's stated that he disagrees, but hasn't went after the crux of the right - wing argument on the issue, which is at the heart of the controversy -- Warren's LGBT = pedophile line.

Fear and Loathing in Tacoma

Obama's choice of Warren is also short - sighted because it undermines the more progressive strain of Christianity that we've seen emerge in the past couple of years.  It would be a serious mistake to enable a surface "reform" of the religious right... which will make meaningless changes to it's presentation in order to sustain the notion that they are part of the political mainstream.  

For the record, opposition to this choice does not mean that someone doesn't understand conservative evangelicals.

Growing up, my father's work was always related to his Evangelical Christianity.  He's promotee Christian concerts, worked for and published Christian magazines, been on staff at a local mega church, and distributed Christian apparel.  I spent much of my youth either at church, youth group, youth group camp, youth leadership meetings, Christian concerts, Christian concert festivals, or the "passion play" that ran twice a weekend every summer.  I started a bible study in my Junior High, prayed around the flagpole, and watched as people were "slain in the spirit."  I believe I have some understanding of why Warren and those who agree with him think the way they do.

My father was a big Mike Huckabee supporter, and a fan of Rick Warren.  I love my father very much, but I also know why the lies and distortions at the core of his views need to be confronted.

At church I heard about the "gay agenda" before I had any clue what gay was.  At a very young age I came across the word "gay" (meaning happy) in a book about Robin Hood, and ran to my teacher to ask her if Robin Hood was part of the "gay agenda."  

I learned that the focus on the mythical "gay agenda" is dangerous.  When I was in the 7th grade, our youth group took a trip up to the Seattle Center to "witness."  On the way back, the church van drove past a house where a group of visibly gay men where having a party.  A few of the guys inside the church van started talking about how they would like to get baseball bats, and come back to beat the men at the party.  While it registered in my mind that what they were talking about doing was wrong, I had been told time and time again that gay people were evil.  When you constantly hear that gay relationships are just like incest, pedophilia, and beasteality, you start to view the people in them as sub - human.

By the time I turned 20, my views had completely changed.  One of my co - workers was gay, and  I quickly learned that everything I was taught about gay people was a lie.  Since then, I've been blessed to have gay friends in my life.

Symbolism matters.  Rick Warren, Rush Limbaugh and the champions of anxious masculinity need to be sent a message that demonizing gay people does not make them "manly."  It makes them ignorant and cruel.

President - Elect Obama recently called himself a "fierce advocate" for equality, but actually being one requires more than lip service.  Obama criticizes a lack of depth to the thinking of the progressive movement that often doesn't exist or is exaggerated, yet he easily bought into the idea that there is something noble, or smart about boosting Rick Warren.  You can't be a "fierce" pushover.  The Obama Administration cannot have it both ways.  

Standing up for LGBT rights could make some people Democrats are trying to win over uncomfortable.  However, voters respond to principled stands, and a message of "health care, jobs, health care, jobs, jobs" backed up with bold legislation would override their disapproval in most cases, especially considering the tremendous economic strain being felt.  Even Bill Kristol and the Cato Institute have talked about how Democrats passing health care reform would help us tremendously with more culturally conservative voters.

President - Elect Obama should rescind the the Warren invitation, and opt to meet with a group of religious leaders from across the spectrum, Warren included, before the inauguration.  Having someone more like Tony Campolo give the invocation would allow the vast majority of the country to watch a historic event without a sick feeling in their stomach.

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UPDATE:  Statements that Warren made in private to Melissa Etheridge aren't enough by themselves.  If Warren renounces his previous comparisons in public, that would be a different story.  

Scrubbing his website of the "no gays allowed" statement and putting his arm around a gay person is a nice first step, but Warren's team isn't short on marketing savvy.  More than token gestures should be required.  There needs to be something substantial.

Some things Warren could do:

- Formally announce an end to his church's "No Unrepentant Gays Allowed" policy, and follow through on it.

- End his Pray the Gay Away "ministry."  These programs have been repeatedly shown to do a tremendous amount of damage to those who are subjected to them.  

- Repeat what he said to Melissa Etheridge in a major interview.  His dehumanizing comparisons of same - sex relationships to incest and pedophilia need to be addressed.  

- Advocate for a change to our country's stance on the United Nations Gay Rights Declaration.  

If Warren did these things, it would go a long way towards justifying his prominent placement at this historical inauguration.

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A little Johnny Cash. (3.00 / 6)
I was listening to this earlier, and the lyrics struck me as especially fitting.  When I heard about the "long tongue liars" who throw their rock and hide their hand, I thought of the James Dobsons of the world.  

They can "run on for a long time," but sooner or later...



Colbert Nation Gulf of America Fund


I'll try and say this the "right way" (3.00 / 7)
This is not just about the LGBT issue, this is about the total rebuke of the people who worked to get this man elected. "Sooner or later" there has to be an acknowledgment of the very people who believed "the words" (I didn't).

So many people were chastised for questioning the sincerity of those "words" not the least of which was President Clinton when he said "it's a fantasy".

It's time to call b*&#$@*t.  


"Moderation to excess is not good for you."~ anonymous


[ Parent ]
Well said, LaEscapee (3.00 / 6)
I do see an acknowledgment coming in the inaugural address, it will be carefully worded, then widely accepted/applauded...grrr....

[ Parent ]
Great diary, MC (3.00 / 5)
At this point, not to sound like I'm downplaying this at all, I'm just glad I didn't hear that Rick Warren is heading Obama's faith department he wants to create. At this point, my expectations are pretty low, though I've heard great things about why Hilda Solis decided to take up the Labor Secretary position from a promise from Obama to let her have free reign to reign down on Bush appointees and to go to bat for the working poor. This is good news. This is a horrible symbolic message on how Obama doesn't care about what most of his base thinks. The bad news is Obama picked a free trader to be out trade Rep after initially considering a decent pick..

I'm not really surprised since the McClurkin incident during the campaign, but the implication of this are far reaching and Obama might think he can piss off the whole gay community, but he can't. If he pisses off labor and fails to pass the EFCA, then he's a 1 term president for sure, but this certainly is not helping, though appointments cause more damage, I can absolutely see your point that this will have much more damage.

You mentioned MTV and that was great point(I'll forgive you for watching MTFV just this once.....J/K. I forgive you! MtV used to be cool back when i watched it. beavis and Butthead. Liquid television. I have to admit I used to watch the first real world series, but since then, I choose to ignore it, but that was a great point and comparison).

I am guilty. Sometimes I understand why people watch reality TV, though i hate it and don't watch. For instance, watching a train wreck can be fun. Anyone been to the kos, lately? It's an utter shit-storm, but part of me is enjoying it after being told for so long how wrong I was and how i needed to "get over it that the one is perfect in every way." i say this as someone who worked to get Obama elected, but I will criticize him when he does stupid shit like this. Admittedly, the bailout and the lack of oversight is my main concern, but just reading the kos has been fairly entertaining, even though I feel guilty from slightly enjoying this train wreck, but it will have to get worse before it gets better.

I have to give mad props to david mizner for this observation over there for it is fully apt:

http://www.dailykos.com/commen...

Good diary (81+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
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It was an unofficial test, this issue.

Many of us had argued for months that there was an unhealthy tendency among some portion--a few? more than a few?--of Obama supporters to defend his every move. When this story broke, I thought: are the really going to?...of course they are...and sure enough, then came diary after diary explaining why Warren wasn't all that bad, why this move by Obama was not only not that bad but brilliant, something MLK would've done, and, worst of all, dismissing the genuine hurt of people as rage or hate.

The grade on this test: F.

by david mizner on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:36:57 PM PST

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

That's sad. Going offo your excellent refrence to the fierce urgency of now, here's what MLK thinks about moderate approaches when dire progress must be made.:

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Ar...

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn't this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God's will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. I had also hoped that the white moderate would reject the myth concerning time in relation to the struggle for freedom. I have just received a letter from a white brother in Texas. He writes: "All Christians know that the colored people will receive equal rights eventually, but it is possible that you are in too great a religious hurry. It has taken Christianity almost two thousand years to accomplish what it has. The teachings of Christ take time to come to earth." Such an attitude stems from a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right. Now is the time to make real the promise of democracy and transform our pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our national policy from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of human dignity.

A Bold man he was, so this portion deserved a bold typeface as it speaks the much needed truth.

Thanks, Micheal. That is quite enough from me.



Thanks priceman! (3.00 / 4)
We're definitely on the same page when it comes to Labor Secretary and trade rep.  I read that Rep. Becerra declined the post because he didn't think trade would be a priority in the Obama administration.  The Kirk choice bothered me.  He seems to be a free trade fundamentalist.

I'm pulling for Solis.  She has a difficult task ahead of her, but I'm optimistic that the grassroots will have her back.  Hopefully Bonior will have Obama's ear as well.  As many populist Democrats have pointed out, there should be no such thing as the working poor.

I think part of the problem is that Obama has bought into ultra - risk averse prhetoric.  Axelrod and Emmanuel were hatchet men for NAFTA, and Gibbs was responsible for the notorious "If you vote for Howard Dean we're all going to die" ad during the 04' primary.  I can't help but think that they are largely insulated from the effects these policies have on people.  If they'll do anything for a paycheck, that isn't a good sign.  

I'm also concerned that President - Elect Obama will get drunk on DC CW by osmosis.  

Ha! (Chris Mathews laugh) I read about the MTV incident, so I TiVo'd the rerun and found the good part.  The Con said something about marriage equality being "proven" wrong "scientifically, religiously, and socially."  He also told people who disagreed to "go screw." In other words, he should be found guilty of 1st degree asshattery.

It seems like there is an insane amount of reality shows on MTV these days.  Who Wants to Date the guy from Poison 5... Who Wants to Date Flavor Flave 9... it never ends.  Even The Hills (which is often the target of Best Week Ever, one show that I always try to watch) has commercials for spin - offs of spin - offs of other spin - offs.  Pretty soon one of the girls from The Hills will date the guy from Poison and... you know how it goes.

I've liked all of David Mizner's stuff that I've read.  It seems like he really "gets it."  The MLK quote is great as well.  

The Dear Leader stuff at Daily Kos is extremely annoying.  I read something by icebergslim, and something else by Jeff Lieber and found both diaries to be so pathetic that I'm hesitant to spend more than a few minutes there.  I'm hoping to see the  unmitigated fandom die down, because DK is seen as a bellwether of the netroots.

I strongly believe that when President - Elect Obama does things that are short - sighted or counterproductive, we need to call him on it.  The Warren fiasco is good example of that.  Most of the rationalizations for it fall apart rather easily.  Until Warren says whatever he said to Melissa Etheridge into a TV camera, the decision to give him the invocation won't make much sense to me.  

We shouldn't let Warren get away with smearing our gay friends and neighbors.  They stand with us on issues that greatly impact our lives (Rachel Maddow frequently advocates for unions, for instance), and it's time that we stand with them.  Andy Stern said some good things about recognizing how deeply this offends a crucial part of our base.  It's also dead wrong,  unless there is a real effort to make this a teachable moment that moves things decidedly in the right direction.  However, even if Warren did apologize for his ridiculous comparisons, the LGBT activists would be perfectly justified in saying that it's not enough.  Warren just campaigned to take away their rights, and if I was in their position, I would imagine it would take much more than words to smooth things over.

As far as Team Obama is concerned... cowering in the face of the far - right is bad enough, but triangulating against those who don't is even worse.  

Colbert Nation Gulf of America Fund


[ Parent ]
I sadly think Rep. Beccera is right (3.00 / 3)
Yep and Kirk is from Dallas TX and free trade apologists are a'plenty in this state. I don't like this at all. I knew things went downhill for these kinds of hopes when Obama backed off what he said about NAFTA to compete against Hillary(now we know that was the only reason) he said "Sometimes campaign rhetoric gets overheated."

I have good reason to hope with her as she has become our only solace in the face of DLC-hood cabinet picks. I hear "the Dear Leaders" and the "I hate Sirota" clan over there say, these appointments don't' matter, "Obama said the change is with him and that's how it has happened in history." Too bad even recent history is not with that notion(though there are some slight examples, but nothing in the vein to which we need it in. Unless the appointees have the right ideas the right kinds of things won't be implemented. FDR might of chose those who no one would suspect could perform well, but he didn't pick those responsible for the 1929 crash. Also, too bad for them, they obviously don't know who Harry Hopkins is and they should. Most of the New Deal came from his ideas. they fail) as you mentioned that Emanuel and Axelrod were hatchet men for NAFTA. I wonder if Larry Summers and Robert Rubin are advising the economic transition team because they disagree with their past policies so much and just want to help Obama. yeah right. I didn't know that about Gibbs. that was awful.

Of Course Bill Clinton was on board with NAFTA as well(though the idea of implementing it came form Bush sr among others), so are they really expecting us to believe that Obama hires people on that he adamantly opposes? hell no. Emanuel must be stumping for Obama's agenda which is not very progressive and pretty centrist as we are now seeing as the days unfold. Not that all is lost and that everything is bad as he will do some good things; much more than McCain would which is why I helped to elect him, but unless he plans to go big with infrastructure spending and put the right regulations and laws back on the books and through Congress actually using tghe bully pulpit, any progress will be hampered or stolen in the night.

I wish he would listen to Bonior. That's another good thing about Hilda Solis is she is a board member of American Rights at Work; that bodes well for the EFCA.

Yeah, it's so ironic that there are hardly any music ideos on MTV anymore. It's all reality TV. I watch a lot of [adult swim] animated programming block on Cartoon Network and Comedy Central mostly.

icebergslim is horrible and so is Jeff Lieber. David Mizner tells it like it is over there as well as TomP and a few others, but they are definitely in the minority; I guess they are the reason(besides MB who I still like and respect) It's a shame people didn't get involved in politics, because they ere excited about making people's lives better, they did it to join the cult of personality which Obama has created and will now apparently ignore now that he no longer needs them.

I can't be all gloom and doom, because I'm still hoping he will surprise me and there is a chance. We definitely need to call this out, because centrist solutions in the name of reaching out across the isle is not going to get the big things done, because as the MLK quote clarifies, we have huge challenges and e are going to have to be confrontational as we know the RW is not going to budge on support for unions, UHC, or anything. Obama needs to put on some of that LBJ treatment and twist arms to get bills through Congress.

I agree and I don't think Melissa Etheridge is thinking clearly. To be that flattered after Warren supported prop 8 among everything else he said comparing gays to pedophiles and the like, shows she is kind of out of touch IMO as she has connections normal gay people don't have as well as being better off; perhaps it's getting to her head. Rick Warren needs to say this stuff to a TV camera just as you said.

Obama could not have picked a worse time for this after the prop 8 passage and the fight that is still going on now and gay people do have a right to be mad even if warren apologizes. I love Rachel Maddow and she does have unions and advocate support for unions on her show. That pisses me off that she has to watch Obama do this after advocating for him for so long(though she's not afraid to criticize him or anybody, which is one of the reasons I like her and her show a lot as well as her personality, too)

I think he has the idea that he "knows better" and we're all supposed to buy into this, "He's always so right and much smarter than all of us so we should STFU." No, I don't think so. McClurkin, FISA, Emanuel, and now this Rick warren slap in the face to the gay community is really betraying our base; not that we didn't see it somewhat, but still.

Let's hope we can have more hope for him after this mess and insult he has created.

thanks, MC.



[ Parent ]
somehow, i don't think "can i have your autograph?" (3.00 / 2)
...would have the same impact said publicly. i have been completely and utterly disappointed that ms. etheridge has capitulated her principals based on "pastor" warren's fandom.

Until Warren says whatever he said to Melissa Etheridge into a TV camera, the decision to give him the invocation won't make much sense to me.

as for mtv, you kids crack me up! i was sitting in front of the teevee machine when the first video (video killed the radio star) launched history. i stopped watching when the program had more pop culture than music video (yeah, i'm an old fart)...

i also completely concur about the sh*tstorm that "the big orange beast" has become. this diary, is SPOT ON michael, and if you had cross-posted it at dKos, it would have been "falmed" to the Nth degree.

i'm proud to call you a cyber-brother...in more ways than one...our attitudes towards progressive populism, our common faith-based upbringing, the whole "magilla".

carry on!

 

There comes a time when silence is betrayal. ~Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.


[ Parent ]
Thanks Dave! (3.00 / 2)
I am truly blessed to have you as a friend.  

Thanks for the encouragement!

Colbert Nation Gulf of America Fund


[ Parent ]
Your experience as a young man reminded me of the usual way in (3.00 / 5)
which the "Christian values" types handle things.

Jesus said "turn the other cheek."

Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Evangelicals say "Let's come back with baseball bats."

I understand your instant feeling of wrongness, here.  This is one of those life affirming points where you feel, deep in your very core, you are either with that or against that.

If there was a God, I would thank it daily for my personal core being SO against that.

I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them.
Adlai Stevenson


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A stirring tale of how progressives built America and lessons on creating the next Big Change Moment, from OpenLeft's Mike Lux.

"As inspiring as it is informative." -Arianna Huffington

"Mike is that rarest breed: a populist insider." -Wes Boyd

"Better than an OpenLeft flame war." -Chris Bowers

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